This week Carrie and I answer five wonderful reader questions from The Smarter Science of Slim Support Group (http://thesmarterscienceofslim.com/community/#/discussion/1286/questions-for-mr-bailor)
From reader SANEPizza :)
“Thanks again, JB, for all the exciting science you have brought us. It’s changed so many lives.
Do you mind a few personal questions with your research?
#1. Which concept of traditional weight loss did you find the most difficult to dispel?
#2. What are the less-SANE (or, dare I say, inSANE) foods that were the hardest for you to change?
#3. What are inSANE “treats” or “cheats” that you occasionally allow, if any?
#4. What are the biggest “changes” to your diet since you started to understand the SSoS concepts to how you eat now?
#5. What do your coworker thinks of all the greens you eat? (Mine make fun of me mercilessly and wonder why I’m not 300 pounds from constantly eating.)”
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Trailer: Jonathan Bailor’s Smarter Science of Slim
Carrie: Welcome to Living the Smarter Science of Slim. I am Carrie Brown and I am here with Jonathan Bailor.
Jonathan: This one, we actually got one of our wonderful participants in this Smarter Science of Slim support group asked five really wonderful questions and instead of just typing out answers, I wanted to get Carrie here in studio and I wanted us to answer these wonderful questions, so thank you SANEpizza, is the alias of this contributor, so wonderful questions here.
The first question was “Which concept of traditional weight loss did you find the most difficult to dispel?” I think this one was directed towards me in terms of just while writing and while talking with the Smarter Science of Slim. What is the most challenging thing that we are up against I guess and without thinking about this too much, I would definitely have to say, just the concept of calories and I realized that’s not really a great answer because that’s everything the Smarter Science of Slim is about, but my new book that’s coming out in January 2014, is called The Calorie Myth and the reason we decided on that title was there is this calorie myth, in fact there is three of them we talk about, we need to manually regulate calories in and calories out, that a calorie is a calorie and that calories is all that matter, so we can eat whatever we want as long as we don’t eat too many calories, right this is what we hear from all food processors out there.
This is a 100-calorie snack pack, it is only 100 calories, so it is fine and the solution to those calorie myths is the Smarter Science of Slim. So, really to give the quicker answer, dispelling the notion of calories I think is really a overarching goal here because when you think about it, we don’t eat calories, we don’t think in terms of calories, hell no one knew what a calorie was until about 20 years ago and we kept ourselves perfectly slim and perfectly healthy without that knowledge. In fact the more we become focused on calories instead of thinking about food, the heavier and the sicker we have gotten. So, I would say the concept in traditional weight loss that I continue to find the most difficult to dispel is that we need to think about calories. We don’t, we need to think about food and once we think about food and we continue to eat food and I am going to define food as something that you can eat directly from nature, calories take care of themself and our body manages them for us, makes sense?
Carrie: Makes perfect sense to me.
Jonathan: Carrie, let me rephrase this question for you. When you are getting familiarized with the Smarter Science of Slim, which traditional concept was the hardest for you to let go or may be haven’t let go of yet?
Carrie: I must admit not to go against anything you’ve just said because you obviously studied it but for me I never worried about calories.
Jonathan: Well you’re the exception. Alright, calorie counting is the defacto…
Carrie: I didn’t know why I thought it was stupid, but I always thought it was stupid, but when I talk to people I find the thing that they balk most at is when I say fat free is bad, we love fat or when I talk about I just ate whatever or I say I get through half a pound of butter a week and people are just really freaked out about the amount of fat I eat and they really struggle…the focus seems to be more on fat than sugar. It’s that fat is bad, fat is bad, that’s where I found the most when people pushed back on me when we were talking about it, it’s the fat thing.
Jonathan: But for you personally, I understand that wasn’t a challenge for you. Like you embraced eating more fat and it healed you.
Carrie: Yes, but I have to say mentally I still have to go, low fat is bad, although I am eating, still mentally when I go to the store and I will see something or when I am faced with a choice, my automatic reaction tends to be the low fat, then I am like no, no, no we love fat. We love healthy fat.
Jonathan: That actually I think is as humans we have this tendency to polarize, and I don’t think you intended to do this just now but you said low fat is bad and let’s just look at a simple example, the Smarter Science of Slim is really about eating nutrient dense foods, so ensuring we eat the most nutrient as possible. So, let’s say that we have a food, we have two versions of it that are completely identical except that one has less fat than the other one. Good example is Greek yogurt. So, we have plain Greek yogurt, we have full fat Greek yogurt and we have non-fat Greek yogurt. Mathematically, the non-fat Greek yogurt is more nutrient dense than the full fat Greek yogurt.
Carrie: Right, because the fat is missing.
Jonathan: Because the fat is missing and I often will enjoy non-fat or fat-free Greek yogurt and because I want to get my fat from super healthy sources of fat such as coconut or cocoa or thing like that, so even though Smarter Science of Slim is all about not fearing fats, again the answer is not all fat is bad, the answer is also not all fat all the time is good.
Carrie: Yes, when I said that I was talking about the common misconception.
Jonathan: Like Starbursts are low fat therefore they are good.
Carrie: Right, exactly.
Jonathan: Yes, but even that is funny though because we swing in one direction too far and then we swing back in the other direction almost too far and this is just kind of funny how human nature works that way because that is probably the area I have gotten the most flack about is the fact that I don’t just come right out and say eat all the fat you want all the time always, which is somewhat ironic because the people who criticized me for doing that are the people who only eat grass fed meat for example, so they don’t say eat meat all the time always, they say only eat certain kinds of meat, only the highest quality of meats. That’s the same thing we say about fats. It is focused on high quality fats. So, it sounds like for you just a not-fearing fat and sort of eating foods that naturally contained fat was the biggest hurdle both for you intellectually and as well as to communicate to others.
Carrie: Yes, and of course the other thing is the exercise, it still really freaks me out that I can exercise for a minute and be so exhausted.
Jonathan: I am going to second you on that one.
Carrie: It still does my head in that exercising for 10 minutes a week is more effective at burning fat than the seven miles a day I used to cycle. I still and I know it’s true, but it’s like when you are looking at something and your brain telling you something different. I know it is true because I have experienced it, but it doesn’t make sense in my brain.
Jonathan: Yes, it doesn’t seem to add up and I will second that. In terms of my answer of calories was when I described other people what is the most challenging, but in terms of my mind, I literally did not accept the science and when I say accept I mean live my life according to it, probably for three years, like I think I have told the story in the podcast before but I went from exercising five to six days a week to four to five days a week to three to four days a week, like I wasn’t able to just say no; one eccentric and in fact I seriously injured myself during that time period doing traditional exercise. I actually ended up tearing my left peck doing standard form of exercise and that was one of the things that set me over the edge and just said getting injured as you get older is not something you just get over, so getting injured is one of the quickest ways to sabotage all health and fitness efforts. So, at that point, I had to scale back and what I found is that in scaling back, nothing bad happened. In fact, good things happened. I would like to think that I would have naturally gotten there, but it is just kind of funny that it took the traditional approach seriously hurting me for me to give the smarter approach a chance and I am the one who did research.
Carrie: Even though you knew the science. It still freaks me out.
Jonathan: Alright, that was question one from SANEpizza. Question two is “What are the less-SANE (or, dare I say, inSANE) foods that were the hardest for you to change?” Carrie do you want to answer this one first, so for you what are the hardest things to give up or change in terms of eating?
Jonathan: Have you found substitutions there or is it just kind of like cold turkey?
Carrie: You can all throw rotten tomatoes at me if you like, but the bread in America is so horrible compared to the bread in Europe. It wasn’t as hard as it would have been if I had been living back in England, it would have been a lot harder. I guess along with that would be pasta, would be the traditional starchy carbohydrates, would be bread and the thing now when I have and I have written about this on my blog, so I am not coming out of the closet entirely right at this moment because I have already written about it, but when I have like once every seven weeks, I will just have this crazy day where I will just like go to the store and I will buy a Sun-Maid cinnamon raisin loaf and I will eat the entire thing in one sitting and then I go “what in the world was I thinking,” and I will go absolutely hideous physically for a day and then I drink lots of green smoothies and eat super good again, but that bread is my thing.
Jonathan: Fascinating. This question I really appreciate actually because, I am going to answer it in two ways. One is I don’t like exercising and I don’t care you can empathize me there, but I burned myself out when I was younger exercising. So I really do not enjoy exercising and lot of people think that is odd, but where I personally like to geek out is with dietary stuff, like I love using food and refining my eating to change the way I look and feel. So, in terms of giving things up, I have been eating differently, not necessarily SANEly but just on this path for over 15 years at this time.
So, I am pretty able to manipulate my diet, but I’ll tell you the one thing that I thought about this more that recently, when I say recently I mean over the past five years rather than over the past 15 years, that’s been the hardest for me is for the longest period of time in my life I was really seeking to like bulk up and I was eating a traditional more starch centric diet and I was consuming, like I felt the need to continuously be eating just all the time till I was uncomfortably full and I found that when I switched to a more SANE way of eating, I got fuller faster, much faster and I still feel like I need to continue to eat though.
Carrie: So, you missed the actual physical eating.
Jonathan: Yes, I was so conditioned to eating and I actually noticed this.
Carrie: Just like giving up smoking [crosstalk 11:56].
Jonathan: Yes, and especially at night I found that I have this mental shift from there is hunger because you are hungry and then there is hunger out of like habit almost, like it is something to do and I have been fascinated as I say like “am I really hungry or am I just eating because for so long in my life I went out of my way to constantly eat so that I could ideally build muscle mass?” I don’t know how many calories I am consuming now nor do I care because my answer to question one but I think it’s half to a third, keep bear in mind that I was eating like 6000 calories a day and that has just been a weird transition for me.
Carrie: I have to mention because you brought it up so this is your fault when you start trying to blame me. I think there is a whole ton of our lovely listeners out there who are going to say they feel exactly the same but emotionally, is they eat for their emotions and it’s becomes a habit. So for you, it was like you felt like to be bulky, you had to eat all the time.
Jonathan: Not be bulky, not be bulky, be muscular.
Carrie: Whatever the term is, I have had a lot of people email me and write on my blog about please cover emotional eating, please tell me you are going to cover that because that’s my biggest pain point is what do I fill that void up with if I’m not eating, what do I do with that?
Jonathan: I would say just to quickly delineate between what I was doing in emotional eating like my problem and I actually didn’t say this so I should have said this, is that I would try to consume as much food as I used to consume from SANE sources and it actually gave me like I had stomach problems because it was just the volume of food in the nutrient density, like you physically can’t eat 6000 calories a day from SANE sources, and that’s not true, I mean you could technically with like coconuts, you could use natural fats to very easily consume that many calories, but you have to…
Carrie: But not if you are keeping third, third, third.
Jonathan: Exactly, like if you are trying to eat 10,000 calories a day, I can show you how to do that very easily using coconut, but point being if you don’t go and do crazy things that’s not going to happen and if you try to do it, it’s very uncomfortable, so don’t it. I was like eating till I was uncomfortable, and that was weird. So, anyway emotional eating is I personally think we all eat emotionally, I eat emotionally, I have a horrendous or good sweet tooth, however you want to describe it; I try to find SANE ways to indulge that. I personally don’t think we should fight it because I think that’s a losing battle and I think it’s very natural for people to seek comfort in food. I don’t think this is something that is new to our generation.
I would suspect that this has happened since forever, but that if we were to get home from work be really, really stressed and enjoy some of the SANE dishes that we have and eat them until we are completely satisfied and actually Carrie I can add a little science here; studies have shown consistently that chocolate is the single most craved food in the world, especially for women and the thing that people crave about chocolate is not actually chocolate, it’s the coco and if we can find ways to use coco or cocoa in SANE fashion, which we have talked about on the show and we continue to blog about, there is no reason to give up emotional eating, it is just do SANE emotional eating, my personal opinion.
Carrie: I would like to stop my craving for Sun-Maid cinnamon raisin bread and I am sure at some point I will, but I will tell you almost for sure women who are listening to this will know what it is like to be just obsessed with and nothing working, you can’t concentrate on anything until you get what it is you are after. I am hoping that that will go away.
Jonathan: Just from my experience is my craving for choc, like I have a chocolate craving, nothing else, I could eat sugar, I could eat candy, I could eat a cherry pie, still have the craving for chocolate, I don’t think it will ever go away and I want to be honest with you Carrie, I don’t want it to go away. When I sit down…
Carrie: Well it doesn’t have to.
Jonathan: It doesn’t and it also brings me immense joy. Hunger is the best sauce. Craving is also the best sauce. We all need a little bit of guilty physical pleasure in our life, none of us are just, may be there are some monks somewhere who is completely above all sort of physical pleasure, but I think as long as we could be SANE about it, for example there are other physical pleasures which can be done intelligently and safely and not as safely. I think the key thing is not necessarily to say we all have to live a life of abstinence forever, but rather to say let’s be conscious and let’s be deliberate about how we sort of enjoy the physical, let’s be intelligent about how we enjoy the physical pleasures of life, just like we tell people to do when it comes to other areas.
Carrie: Yes and I will work on making you some more chocolate SANEness.
Jonathan: My recent concoction is I think I am actually heading to have it for dinner tonight, I am just going to have chocolate protein pudding for dinner tonight because I just love it and it makes me happy and it is so SANE, so anyway so that’s question two.
Question three actually I think we kind of covered it, which is “What are inSANE “treats” or “cheats” that you occasionally allow, if any?” Carrie, would you like to take the first step of that one or I think you have mentioned that already, a mountain of raisins.
Carrie: But that’s not my treat or cheat, that’s my crazy, that’s that which is different and I don’t do that very often, but when I do, boy do I do it properly? inSANE treats or cheats, I would say where am I know, what do I go for, really I’ve been quite good.
Jonathan: I think it is because of the substitutions you have found. I mean it’s the same kind of thing for me.
Carrie: I think the key because you just told me this question now. So, I am thinking on the fly here [crosstalk 18:15] but I think the key thing I want to say is, he is motioning me do not bang on the table. My experience has been that when you switch to a SANE lifestyle, the cravings go away.
Jonathan: Yes, absolutely.
Carrie: So, I don’t really treat or cheat a lot because I no longer feel the need to and actually I, the thought of eating a cupcake anymore just makes me want to gag, I just don’t want that stuff, so I have these crazy days where I need to eat whole loaf of Sun-Maid raisin bread, but on a day-to-day basis, I don’t really struggle with that anymore.
Jonathan: Absolutely, what it makes sense, something I will talk about a bit more in the next book is sugar addiction which has been proven, overall food addiction is not nearly as clear, but sugar specifically caloric sweeteners has been shown to be addictive and we think about other addictive substances, right? A lot of the reasons, I mean when you stop smoking, you just straight up stop smoking and if you stop smoking for long enough, you don’t really crave nicotine anymore, that’s the definition of breaking the addiction.
Carrie, I already struggled or continue to struggle with even messaging about the Smarter Science of Slim and I don’t think there is a right answer. I think it depends on, each person genetically has, there is like addictive personalities and non-addictive personalities and for some people going cold turkey, like literally going completely SANE is the only way this is going to work for them, Carrie you are an example, because otherwise smoking one cigarette a day just makes you want to smoke more cigarettes.
Carrie: I am all or nothing. For me, what I want people to understand my experience was that, that wasn’t hard because I found when I eat SANE, I don’t want to do that anymore. So, I am reading this question and it says “What are the inSANE “treats” or “cheats” that you occasionally allow?” and that makes me to sound like is this hard, rigid thing that I am following. My experience is it’s not like that at all. So, it’s not a question of allowing. I don’t kind of go, okay if I stick to this for a week, on Saturday I am going to go out and eat X because I am going to allow myself. It just has not been like that for me at all.
Jonathan: I couldn’t agree with you more Carrie and I think that’s really the key though is substitutions like in a traditional, couple of things I crave. So, I crave chocolate and I crave rich fatty, I have actually noticed saturated fat, literally I can eat chia seeds and flaxseeds till my stomach is bursting, but I will not have this psychological satisfaction that I would get from like egg yolks or coconut or cocoa. So, saturated fats. So, when I crave saturated fats, I enjoy coconut, I enjoy cocoa in mass and I don’t, again it is like you said, I am not cheating. Many diets would consider that to be cheat, but this isn’t really a diet, it’s just the framework by which you make decisions and if you crave X, just find SANE ways to do X and if you like this treat, let’s find SANE substitutions for that. Again, like you said so perfectly, it’s not I am going to have a cheat day, you could have a cheat day, but what a lot of people, excuse me you and me included, have found is that you don’t need to cheat when you don’t feel like you are depriving yourself in the first place.
Carrie: Right, again if someone invites me out for breakfast on the weekend, which is breakfast is my favorite meal to eat out, once in a while I will eat whatever I fancy and I don’t worry about it because I eat SANE the rest of the week. I know that it’s not going to have any impact, even then when I do something inSANE if I am out at a restaurant and I chose to eat inSANELY, I don’t feel bad about it, I don’t feel any of that guilt or anything because I know I am going to go back to eating SANE for the rest of the week and it’s all good. So, I don’t have that check and balance like you would do with most diets.
Jonathan: The good news with the biological underpinnings of that, that’s just not you rationalizing, right? We’ve talked about the body is designed to automatically balance itself out and if we reduce our set point down as we will if we go SANE, these little deviations don’t matter, right? Just like if you put a little bit of hair in the sink occasionally, it doesn’t get clogged. It’s the chronic and continual consumption. You don’t need to worry about it even from a biological perspective either, which is great.
Carrie: Right, and for me, knowing that intellectually helps me to put that into practice that I know that I am a lot less clogged than I used to be. So, eating one meal that’s a bit inSANE is not going to make a difference.
Jonathan: Absolutely and one other thing I will add is, I think a useful way to think about a SANE lifestyle is a little bit like you would think of a vegetarian or Kosher or Halal lifestyle where a vegetarian doesn’t feel the need to treat themselves or to cheat by eating a steak and someone who is strict Kosher or Halal isn’t like “Man on Tuesdays I am going to eat bacon” because it’s deeper than just food for them. It means something to them and I think if we really embrace the sort of spirit of our body is such an important vessel and the food we put inside of ourselves, if we really internalize how intimate of an action that really is, look at how much we scrutinize pills, but what we eat all day everyday, I think when we put that on the pedestal it deserves to be on it and we see how it permeates in literally every area of our life at least that’s how I have internalized it. You don’t want to cheat, you just don’t want to.
Carrie: Right, but I also think denial is the bane of every other diet out there is that this denial never works. We know that, we know that denying as of something is the road to failure. We have seen that a million times over.
Jonathan: Absolutely, so let’s move onto question four which is “What are the biggest “changes” to our personal diets since we started to understand the Smarter Science of Slim concepts and how do we sort of eat now versus how we ate before then?” I will answer this one first. For me the biggest change is easily my consumption of non-starchy vegetables. I hated non-starchy vegetables. I probably ate may be, first of all if I wasn’t eating out, I wouldn’t eat any non-starchy vegetable, I would never buy and prepare non-starchy vegetables ever, ever.
Carrie: Very sad Bailor.
Jonathan: Unless they were served to me, I did not consume them, but now I consume by and large the bulk of my diet from a volume perspective. It is easily non-starchy vegetables. I probably consumed and mind you I am a relatively large person, I consume between 15 to 20 servings of non-starchy vegetables of a day easily, most of which are in smoothie form and I love them now, like if…I went to Mexico recently with my wife all-inclusive vacation, I was craving my greens, I was like “I need some vegetables, I need some vegetables.”
Carrie: You think Bailor is hardcore? I took my blender on vacation with me. He left his at home.
Jonathan: Yes, I couldn’t get it through customs, but yes, so the biggest change for me is I have always, not always, but since I can remember since high school I have gone out of my way to consume more protein because I have been into having muscles and things like that and obviously the elimination of starch was a big thing, but truly, it’s the vegetables, what about you Carrie?
Carrie: Opposite. I have been a veggie girl, I love veggies, you will read them on my blog all these strange vegetables I am making you eat.
Carrie: Yes, leeks everywhere. I think I have quite a few leek converts now, so very happy, but for me it is the increasing protein that was by far the biggest change, but I have to say that also had the most dramatic result in terms of changing my body was the increasing protein, the results were just mind-blowing.
Jonathan: That’s amazing.
Carrie: Just mind-blowing.
Jonathan: It’s funny because I actually found the same thing, the thing that was interesting. So, assume I have this baseline of protein already going, what I noticed is that, basically I have got the protein, check. What I did is I traded starch for non-starchy vegetables and again, just being completely transparent here, prior to the Smarter Science of Slim, I have quite a bit of scientific experience, but I also have a lot of personal experience. I have been in the natural bodybuilding role for quite some time and I tried every freaking pill, powder besides steroids, like if it was legal, I have tried it and all of that done, and I am talking extreme workouts, working out for 20 plus hours a week.
When I eliminated all sugar, well it was not even elimination of all sugar because I was still eating fruit at that time, just elimination of starchy carbs and replacing them with a dramatic amount of vegetables, like my waist shrunk from 34 to 31.5 inches while my weight and my strength stayed the same and I was mind-boggled, like my clothes didn’t fit me anymore and I didn’t change anything, I was just exercising less, it was just so fascinating to me and I think it had a lot of do with like water retention and bloating, but it was just wow, it was just shocking, the aesthetic difference that that led to.
Carrie: Though for me it was, I swapped protein in and swapped the starches out, dramatic difference.
Jonathan: It’s awesome, I love it. So, the last question is pretty funny and I love it, it is “What do your coworkers think of all the greens you eat?” and SANEpizza tells us here that his coworkers make fun of him mercilessly and wonder why he doesn’t weigh 300 pounds from constantly eating.
Carrie: I get the same thing like how can you eat all that you eat and be slim, how does that work because I am eating all the time, but also people come in my office and they will look at my green smoothie and my whole cucumber that I am munching on then…
Jonathan: I totally eat whole cucumbers, I love them.
Carrie: I eat bright green leek soup and all these green [crosstalk 29:17] and I often get the comment, ‘you eat really healthy things, don’t you’, to which my normal response is a big smile and something along the lines of yes, I am really 105, but I only [crosstalk 29:30] and they go, yes and you can see them thinking and then they go away. Again, so that’s how I deal with it, that is to make fun of it.
Jonathan: That’s cool. It’s funny reading this question actually made me think of “This is geeky Jonathan coming out or philosophical Jonathan coming out.” So, there is a German philosopher by the name of Arthur Schopenhauer and he said that all truth passes through three stages, first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third it is accepted as being self-evident. It’s actually funny because this is how my experience at work truly worked out, so I brought in my green smoothies, people laughed at me. Then I actually kept my blender at work because I would do some of the blending at work and someone actually threw my blender away because they didn’t like the sound of the blender, so passive-aggressive, someone actually threw the blender away.
Jonathan: So, first I was ridiculed then I was violently opposed and now as funny as it sounds, like if you look on the third floor of the building that I work and you open the refrigerator at any point in time, there is a lot more vegetables in it and there is dramatic, a lot of people have lost a lot of weight, a lot of people have seen wonderful cardiac benefits, diabetes medication have been reduced, cholesterol has been dramatically improved and I think it is really just about like you said we are not here to convert anyone, I think we are here to like again, just use another quote from another great teacher, Gandhi who said, “Be the change we want to see in the world,” which is just people are going to, anytime you do anything, that’s different, you are going to be mocked. I personally find the best way to respond is just to say something like thank you or to smile.
Carrie: I just do something humorous.
Jonathan: Just do something humorous, yes.
Carrie: I would turn into something funny and give them the widest smile I can and I never know what to do with that.
Jonathan: If you keep it up for long enough, I promise you, you will change other people’s lives while changing your own through the only way that anyone ever changes anyone else’s life and that’s by them coming on their own to accept that what you are doing may actually be something good, like you telling them to do it will never convince them.
Carrie: Well, you just have to keep quiet and let them see the results and smile a lot.
Jonathan: Absolutely, it just speaks for itself.
Carrie: I have people in droves, friends who I don’t necessarily push this on them. If they see it on my Facebook, they see it on my Facebook, but I’ve had so many friends come to me and say, how do eat all that stuff and stay the size you are, how are you losing weight, how come your waist is getting smaller, how does that work. So, I now have a lot of people come to me and ask me what are you doing.
Jonathan: Absolutely, I love it. SANEpizza, I hope that was a good answering of your wonderful questions and I really do appreciate if other people have like more personal questions for us, obviously we get hundreds of questions in the support group already which is wonderful, but feel free to send them over, we will do the best we can to answer them and again please join us in the Smarter Science of Slim support group if you aren’t already because there are a lot of really, really awesome SANE folks there that can support you and also have great suggestions, so Carrie any closing comments?
Carrie: Yes because I am just looking over your shoulder and I am seeing the rest of the comments from SANEpizza and he is saying “I love cheddar cheese” and then a bit later he says “I love sharp cheddar cheese” and I am like SANEpizza you go because I love sharp cheddar cheese too and I eat sharp cheddar cheese and it’s wonderful. I just don’t eat it all the time.
Jonathan: This is a great moment to wrap up with all we said earlier about like we don’t have to give stuff up, we can treat ourselves, we can live a life which is enjoyable and sensual and indulge our senses, but we do it intelligently, let me give a good example, Carrie you created like the potatoes au gratin SANE substitute like using what?
Carrie: Using zucchini and yellow squash and almonds and parmesan cheese.
Jonathan: Parmesan cheese, but it is cheesy and delicious, right?
Carrie: Yes, very delicious.
Jonathan: So, here is a perfect example, you could have this fabulous meal and you could have this giant serving of this cheesy gooey awesome thing and you don’t have to eat like, I am just going to eat two cubes of cheese because that’s two points, eat the whole freaking thing, and that’s what I think is funny because often times we can do things when we are following a SANE lifestyle that are just completely off the table if you are not, like eating a bowl of chocolate goodness for dinner and being like that was healthy for me, you will never experience that and even if you ate “normally” you would probably feel bad after doing that, so you still wouldn’t have that, it’s like finding a beautiful outfit, that’s good, but when you find one that’s on sale and you get that like one-two punch of satisfaction like, “man I look good and I saved money,” it’s the same kind of thing. It’s like “man I look good and that was delicious.”
Carrie: There you go, but we’re not saying you can eat just any old chocolate pudding; you have to eat a SANE chocolate pudding, you can find one on my blog and it has got vegetables in it.
Jonathan: You can also find a better one on my blog, oh no I am just kidding. Carrie does have vegetables, mine doesn’t. So, there you go Carrie’s is better.
Carrie: Mine SANEr than yours.
Jonathan: Okay, let’s not have any my recipes could beat up your recipes competition because I will lose that one.
Carrie: You have to let me win sometimes.
Jonathan: No, I will absolutely lose that one, there is no question. Well again, thank you for the wonderful questions and remember folks; eat smarter, exercise smarter, and live better. We will see you soon.
[End of Audio 35:20]